Final VVOE Timing?

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    When was your final VVOE? A week out? A day? I also recall talk of moving them closer to closing because of the public health crisis and major economic impacts. Can anyone provide recent info?


    As close to as possible. My closing is being held up because of VVOE. I had it done on March 12 and got CTC final on March 13. Not sure why my closing wasn’t scheduled but now we have to do it again. Apparently it expires (after a week I was told) So that should give you an idea. My closing was scheduled for today and it didn’t happen because they can’t VVOE for my husband because NYC Fire Dept. is kind of hard to get a hold of because of the crisis. So it depends. They are literally still trying today and we are trying to close again on Thursday.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Alikay.

    Hello all,

    As many of you know, the VVOE is the very last step before the final Clear to Close is given. While the VVOE may not seem like a critical item in the overall process, it is actually very important, and is becoming even more so during these anything-but-normal times.

    The Verbal Verification of Employment exists for one very simple purpose, to make sure that the source of income the borrower said they will be using for the funds to repay the loan is still in place.

    Amazingly, it actually catches someone more often than you may think. Imagine losing your job a couple of weeks or even just a few days before you are scheduled to close on your new home. Even the best of us would probably be tempted to try and “slip it by” the people we are getting the mortgage from rather than face the overwhelming disappointment of things falling apart at the last moment.

    Unfortunately, there are some people who try to do exactly that. When they get caught, of course the closing is cancelled, but what is worse is that since it is actually attempted mortgage fraud, they could face prison time as a result. While in most cases criminal charges are not pressed, the incident is noted in the loan application records and on their credit report, plus they are permanently banned from the NACA program of course, all of which makes it much tougher to get a mortgage later on when things are better.

    Just FYI, it isn’t always so tough on the buyer after they get caught. I recall a case last year when the bank made the phone call for the VVOE, which was responded to with something along the lines of, “Her? She’s been gone from here for a month. She went to work for (competitor’s name)!”

    When faced with the information, she admitted to changing jobs, literally leaving one on Friday and starting the next on Monday. She got the idea that the change would somehow disqualify her, so she never reported the change to her counselor.

    She had forgotten that NACA guidelines permit qualification as long as there are no gaps in employment more than 30 days in the past two years. The seamless job shift would not have been a problem, and at worst would have required a new Verification of Employment, a couple of paystubs, a Letter of Explanation and NACA filing a Change of Circumstance form with the bank.

    Since it was obvious to us that there was no malicious intent to hide a loss of income and that it was simply a… well… really dumb mistake, and that she was actually bettering herself financially by taking the new job, NACA decided to “ride to the rescue”.

    We talked the bank out of trashing the whole deal, then with the member’s assistance, we scrambled and got the paystubs from the new job in the file, a VOE from the new employer, a Letter of Explanation (and apology), and got the CoC filed with the bank. Once some upper level folks at BOA reviewed the file (including their fraud investigators), they finally granted the final Clear to Close and she got her home.

    Admittedly, the whole incident had us shaking our heads a bit. Full and total disclosure is an absolute necessity, especially in the post-Great Recession era.

    The point behind this lengthy response, in addition to showing the importance of the VVOE, is because of the economic effects of dear ol’ COVID-19. Furloughs, layoffs or whatever you wish to call it, are happening at a rate never before seen in American history. The sheer mathematics of the situation show that there will be even more cases of job-loss-just-before-closing than we may have ever seen before, making the VVOE much more essential than ever before.

    It’s almost guaranteed that things will bounce back to normal pretty quickly once the pandemic subsides, especially noting the lengths some employers are going to in order to help their laid-off employees survive this crisis. They’re ready to re-hire as soon as the coast is clear. So for those (hopefully very few) who face the conundrum of what to do when suddenly out of work before closing, there is in reality only one realistic and intelligent answer: complete honesty.

    , I hope they manage to get these VVOE’s completed for you today and you can sign on the dotted line before the weekend.

    Finally, I know can speak for everyone in the Forum family in saying our thoughts and prayers are with your husband as he is part of the battle at the epicenter of the COVID-19 fight. Please express our deep and sincere gratitude to him as well.

    Tim Trumble
    Online Operations, NACA

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by TTrumble.
    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by TTrumble.

    Thanks, Tim, for that very in-depth response. That is all super important. I am definitely nervous with COVID19, but the practical issue here for me is that our Payroll guy is.. a little tough to work with sometimes. Since we’re all working from home now and I can’t walk down the hall to press him on things, I want to be sure I’m on top of this and he takes the call from home!


    Thanks Tim. I appreciate it I’ll certainly share with him. Right now we’re just waiting. No success again today but we are hopeful. Hopefully the sellers are able to understand the delay and the bank is willing to be slightly flexible, not in waiving the voe because I know it’s important, but with the contact info they are willing to accept.

    , the bank did reach out to us for email addresses for our HR because of Covid so that might give you some relief if you’re worried about phone calls not being answered. My own voe was straightforward and is being done via email this time around. Best of luck to you.

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